Jim talks about being at one stage the youngest loyalist interned. Describes routine for internees.
Tells us about the impact on his family, his wife was pregnant when he was interned.
Recalls the influence Gusty Spence and David Ervine had on his move into working for the community.
Reflects on the work involved in building peace.
Audio Transcript
00:00:00.0 00:01:14.2 Interned when 19 years old, initially the youngest loyalist internee, but others followed who were as young as 16.
00:01:14.2 00:02:46.9 Member of Woodstock Tartan Gang, imprisoned for riotous behaviour aged 17. Was in Crumlin Road Gaol when internment came in. Had to work as orderly for republican internees.
00:02:46.9 00:04:04.0 Interned in Long Kesh in Compound 11, a mixture of loyalist sentenced prisoners and internees. Pregnant wife carried the brunt of what was happening.
00:04:04.0 00:07:09.9 Spent 16-18 months interned. Refused to recognise the court as he didn’t see it as British justice for a British citizen. Allegations couldn’t be openly challenged.
00:07:09.9 00:10:04.4 Interned when he went to collect items taken from his house. Opportunity to escape so they could shoot him. Tried to trick him with gun. House raided a number of times.
00:10:04.4 00:13:29.5 Brought to Long Kesh on the 11th night. Met up with a good friend. Place full of young men doing sentences from 6 months to life. Gusty Spence very influential, like a father figure to them
00:13:29.5 00:15:06.3 Explaining difference in routine for sentenced prisoners and internees. Internees from all loyalist groups in one shared hut with sentenced prisoners.
00:15:06.3 00:17:08.0 Internees eventually moved to separate compound, each loyalist group had their own hut. Tensions could arise relating to events outside.
00:17:08.0 00:19:16.6 Impact on families. Role of women was bedrock in conflict. Refused parole for his daughter’s birth, 4 weeks before he saw her on visit.
00:19:16.6 00:22:07.7 Financial strain on wife. After release had to sell home. Couldn’t get a decent job. Former loyalist internees and prisoners disowned by some in community. Spoke out about loyalists being used by politicians.
00:22:07.7 00:24:24.6 Psychological difference in being interned and being a sentenced prisoner. Never knowing when you might be released. Encounter with republicans in Crumlin Road Gaol.
00:24:24.6 00:27:17.1 Impact of internment, Gusty Spence talked about future society. David Ervine involvement in politics encouraged him into that field. Formed residents group working across interfaces. Has stood up for community.
00:27:17.1 00:30:18.7 Recalling totally innocent young men being interned in place of others. Loyalists treated as badly as republicans. His involvement was response to republican violence.
00:30:18.7 00:32:42.2 Reflecting on engagement with republicans over the years. Republican friendships. Many years spent trying to create a better way forward on the interfaces. Fighting for peace harder than fighting for conflict.
